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Year VII: Deathly Hallows Discuss, A New Idea For Snape at Books: The Restricted Section of the Library forum
All good ideas. All along though, Snape has been good and evil, at different times in his life. So, the ...

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Old 07-10-2007, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: A New Idea For Snape

All good ideas. All along though, Snape has been good and evil, at different times in his life. So, the real question is, "Can we trust him to help the Order and Harry in Year 7?" Here's what we know:

1) Unbreakable vow - Snape promised Narcissa three things: 1) watch over Draco as he fullfilled Voldermort's wishes, 2) protect him from harm, and 3) if Draco failed, which he did, Snape would do what Voldermort told Draco to do. Even if Snape wanted to be "good", he now was forced to follow-through and commit an "evil" act once again.

2) When Draco Malfoy failed to kill Dumbledore on the Astronomy Tower, Snape broke through the fight and came to Draco's aid, saved Draco from being killed by Voldermort because he failed, and then Snape killed Dumbledore himself with the unforgivable Avada Kedavra curse.

3) Snape protected Harry from being killed by Death Eaters. Snape said, "Have you forgotten our orders? Potter belongs to the Dark Lord - we are to leave him!"

4) Snape was teaching Harry while fighting him. "No unforgivable curses from you Potter!" and, "Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!"
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:47 PM
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2007, 06:06 AM
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Default Re: A New Idea For Snape

Good point, Winky. Except…

from "A new idea for Snape" (Deathly Hallows forum)
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Originally Posted by Winky View Post
All good ideas. All along though, Snape has been good and evil, at different times in his life. So, the real question is, "Can we trust him to help the Order and Harry in Year 7?"…


Quote:
Originally Posted by Winky View Post
Snape promised Narcissa… if Draco failed, which he did, Snape would do what Voldermort told Draco to do.
Only “if it should prove necessary.” If Draco fails, Voldemort will kill him for the failure. Nothing Snape can do will change the fact that Draco failed.

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Originally Posted by Winky View Post
…When Draco Malfoy failed to kill Dumbledore on the Astronomy Tower, Snape broke through the fight and came to Draco's aid, saved Draco from being killed by Voldermort because he failed…

Narcissa, who has been in the habit of wiping Draco's butt for the past seventeen years, could not imagine that those days are gone. SHE BELIEVED that Snape could make it all better. Snape is smarter than that.

from the thread, “The Contradiction To ‘albus - The Time Traveller Theory‘" (Deathly Hallows forum)
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(sigh.) Read "Spinner's End" again.
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Originally Posted by Psyduck View Post
(1) The vow was between Narcissa and Snape. What Voldemort might think of it is irrelevant. It was an understanding between them. Narcissa's only concern was Draco's safety. She didn't care one way or another about Dumbledore.

(2) Snape's actions, after Draco's failure, would not have changed the fact that Draco failed. Snape's killing of Dumbledore would not have helped Draco and therefore would not have fulfilled the Vow of keeping Draco safe.

(3) Snape vowed to do whatever was necessary to keep Draco safe, EVEN IF that meant killing Dumbledore. If doing the chicken dance in Times Square on New Year's Eve would help to keep Draco alive, then Snape would be bound by his Vow to do the chicken dance. The method does not matter.

(4) Narcissa, who has been in the habit of wiping Draco's butt for the past seventeen years, could not imagine that those days are gone. Neither could she imagine defying Voldemort.

(5) Snape is smarter than Narcissa, and possibly smarter than Voldemort. He understood that actually killing Dumbledore would be irrelevant to Narcissa's cause -- that it was NOT NECESSARY. It is only the Vow itself that will protect Draco from Voldemort. The fake murder of Dumbledore protects Snape, not Draco.

Last edited by Psyduck : 07-11-2007 at 06:08 AM.
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Old 07-11-2007, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: A New Idea For Snape

Wow..you guys write such long stuff saying so little.

Draco hadn't finished in his attempt to kill Dumbledore..he was still standing in front of him wand in hand. Snape pushed Draco aside and did his thing making everyone assume Draco had failed. Snape did not actually kill Dumbledore but he would have had to if he had actually waited for Draco to fail.

Last edited by alohamora : 07-11-2007 at 06:57 AM. Reason: am not a gruff so added a smilie
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Old 07-11-2007, 07:13 AM
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Wow..you guys write such long stuff saying so little...
And still, no one gets it. Killing Dumbledore was irrelevant to Narcissa's cause and the Vow.

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...Draco hadn't finished in his attempt to kill Dumbledore..he was still standing in front of him wand in hand. Snape pushed Draco aside and did his thing making everyone assume Draco had failed. Snape did not actually kill Dumbledore but he would have had to if he had actually waited for Draco to fail.
Interesting point. I hadn't thought of that or heard it before.
But no, I would still say that Draco failed. It was obvious to everyone there, including Draco.

page 591, Dumbledore --"My dear boy, let us have no more pretense about that. If you were going to kill me, you would have done it when you first disarmed me, and you would not have stopped for this peasant chat about ways and means."

Malfoy -- "But I got this far, didn't I? They thought I'd die in the attempt, but I'm here... You're at my mercy..."
"No, Draco," said Dumbledore quietly. "It is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now."
Draco did not speak. His mouth was open, his wand hand still trembling. Harry thought he saw it drop by a fraction --
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Old 07-11-2007, 07:27 AM
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Draco did not speak. His mouth was open, his wand hand still trembling. Harry thought he saw it drop by a fraction
Why be so 'bold' lol. I can read normal print.

I hold on to that little quote of yours because thats the bit that only matters..the ones before were irrelevent. This quote still proves MY point. A trembling wand and a fraction dropped does not go to prove that he still had no chance to kill Dumbledore. He was standing there with his wand in his hand pointed at Dumbledore while Dumbledore was defenseless. Snape had to act when he did before Draco completely lost it. Otherwise he would actually have been bound to kill Dumbledore. Sorry. Think I repeated myself a bit.
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Old 07-11-2007, 08:03 AM
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I hold on to that little quote of yours because thats the bit that only matters..the ones before were irrelevent.
Shrugging it off because you didn't understand it? Which part didn't you get?


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Originally Posted by alohamora View Post
This quote still proves MY point. A trembling wand and a fraction dropped does not go to prove that he still had no chance to kill Dumbledore. He was standing there with his wand in his hand pointed at Dumbledore while Dumbledore was defenseless. Snape had to act when he did before Draco completely lost it. Otherwise he would actually have been bound to kill Dumbledore. Sorry. Think I repeated myself a bit.
Is the glass half empty or half full?
It doesn't matter, because he needed a full glass to do the job.

page 585, Malfoy --"I've got a job to do."
"Well, then, you must get on and do it, my dear boy," said Dumbledore softly.
There was silence...Draco Malfoy did nothing but stare at Albus Dumbledore, who, incredibly, smiled.
"Draco, you are not a killer."

Draco's resolve had been "feeble" and half-hearted all year. His will became weaker and weaker as the conversation went on.
He simply couldn't do it, even though his life depended on it.

"Killing is not nearly as easy as the innocent believe."

Last edited by Psyduck : 07-11-2007 at 08:06 AM.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2007, 08:48 AM
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..He simply couldn't do it, even though his life depended on it..
You're 'boldness' is still not worth it lol.

So much presumption. The reason why the portion I took out of your post is not in bold is because they are your thoughts and not from the book.

An old man's smile and his attempt at buying time does little to dissuade me from the FACT that Draco still stood over Dumbledore with his wand ready..albeit a bit confused. Why didn't Snape just whisper into his ear, 'Do it..make your father proud. I'm right behind you..and Dumbledore is helpless'..?
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Veronika View Post
Voldemort feels ashamed of his parents (ESPECIALLY OF HIS FATHER) and that's why he has changed his muggle name. The case with Snape is quite different...he has signed as Half-blood Prince - he is not ashamed of his muggle origin. He DIFFERS from deatheaters,doesn't he? And the conclusion that I'd like to make is that Snape cannot be a real deatheater. He is most likely to be a spy on them (deatheaters)!
( I'm sorry...my English is poor...but I hope that you will comprehend me
what do you mean your english isn't good, it sems fine to me, but them again, i'm from england, where are you from?
hermione
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Old 07-17-2007, 04:43 PM
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Default Re: A New Idea For Snape

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winky View Post
All good ideas. All along though, Snape has been good and evil, at different times in his life. So, the real question is, "Can we trust him to help the Order and Harry in Year 7?" Here's what we know:

1) Unbreakable vow - Snape promised Narcissa three things: 1) watch over Draco as he fullfilled Voldermort's wishes, 2) protect him from harm, and 3) if Draco failed, which he did, Snape would do what Voldermort told Draco to do. Even if Snape wanted to be "good", he now was forced to follow-through and commit an "evil" act once again.

2) When Draco Malfoy failed to kill Dumbledore on the Astronomy Tower, Snape broke through the fight and came to Draco's aid, saved Draco from being killed by Voldermort because he failed, and then Snape killed Dumbledore himself with the unforgivable Avada Kedavra curse.

3) Snape protected Harry from being killed by Death Eaters. Snape said, "Have you forgotten our orders? Potter belongs to the Dark Lord - we are to leave him!"

4) Snape was teaching Harry while fighting him. "No unforgivable curses from you Potter!" and, "Blocked again and again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!"
ooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! i totally forgot about the unbreakable vow, how stupid could i be, oh, my gosh!!!!i am geeking out about this!!! or that's what andy said over my shoulder, jeeezzzzz!!! w could... i have to call all of my friends!!! golly!!!
hermione
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