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Year VII: Deathly Hallows Discuss, Albus, The Time Traveler at The Restricted Section of the Library forum
He then set out on his "final journey," to deliver these notes to himself, in reverse order.</...

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Old 07-18-2006, 07:42 PM
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He then set out on his "final journey," to deliver these notes to himself, in reverse order.</span>

He left a sanitized copy of the memoirs in the hiding place for Harry. The one element he would neglect to mention in Harry\'s copy is the Time-Traveler element. Best not to put it in writing and risk letting the world know about that. It\'s a neat trick that could be used again by someone with less honorable intentions.

If you are going to tamper with time, you must do so in a way that allows the inhabitants of the altered timeline to remember/know why they need/needed to alter it. Lily and James had to die. He can not change that.

HP-6, page 510, "...If Voldemort had never murdered your father... created his worst enemy... Voldemort himself singled out the remarkable person who sits here in front of me..."

I do not mean to say that Dumbledore would not or should not, but that he could not change the events in Godric\'s Hollow. Without Harry\'s scar and that all it represents, the time-line as we know it could not have played out and Dumbledore could not have known of the need to go back to save them. Forget that Voldemort would have continued in his quest for world domination, and that perhaps no one would have been able to stop him. He would never have had the chance, because Dumbledore could not go back to save Lily and James.

Dumbledore worked his way back through time, orchestrating and facilitating his own life, giving himself tips and hints at those crucial events, sometimes nothing more than a nod of approval at the right moment. Harry observed once that "tweak" is one of Dumbledore\'s favorite words. Actually, it is the story of his life. Strolling back through time, he drops in to "tweak" the circumstances in favor of the desired outcomes.

He never needed to lie. He did need to work hard on certain puzzles because he honestly did not know the answers. The Time-Traveler dropped in every now and then to give himself a helpful nudge, but mostly he worked it all out for himself, in natural time.

He would have chosen a relatively quiet time of his young life for his first appearance to himself. This would have been long ago, probably long before the trouble with Grindlewald.

The sight of his own elderly body told the young Dumbledore that he would live for a very long time. Near the end, the incident that blackened his hand told him that his time was short.

In this time period, no one would have recognized the elderly Dumbledore, so hiding would not have been necessary. Here he lived out the last of his days under the care of his younger self.

His "death" was fake, but it was real in that his public life did not continue beyond the "funeral." He did not come back, was not seen by the public again, and died in the distant past.

Among other things, this theory accounts for Dumbledore\'s unwavering trust in Snape.

========================
<span style="font-family:Comic Sans Ms">PS:

This Post #1 was significantly edited on 7-25-06. The theory was revised in light of complaints in Post # 7, below, but subsequent posts have only added to the confusion.

The BIG BLUNDER was that I started Dumbledore on his "final journey" immediately after the funeral rather than waiting for the end of the war.

Excuse Paragraph: The main problem was that I spent so much time thinking backward, trying to make sense of all that has already happened in the first six books, that I forgot that the main event hasn\'t even happened yet. I know, as errors in thinking go, that one is... just a teensy bit... incredulous.
But let\'s get real, guys. We all know that it\'s going to work out somehow; that Voldemort will be "vanquished," one way of another, while Harry "survives." We just want to know how. We\'re all holding our collective breath, sitting on edges of our seats, gnawing our nails down to the quick... but... come on. We already know.
It\'s a lame excuse, but it\'s all I have.

Little blunders, like the sanitzed version of the memoirs: It\'s not a big deal. Dumbledore\'s own copy is essential for his "final journey." The other one was an after thought, just a little keepsake for Harry. In the original version I had trouble figuring out how to get it to him. In the revised version, Dumbledore can just hand it to him, so it\'s not an issue any more. It was the same with a lot of dumb little details. With the revised version, the light came on, the birds started singing, everything became simple and stream-lined and easy and the dumb little problems just melted away. Ok?
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Old 07-18-2006, 07:42 PM
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Old 07-18-2006, 08:28 PM
darkshine darkshine is offline Scan darkshine
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Wow, I must say this is one of the most ingenius ideas I have yet to see on this site. A nice, well thought-out, thorough theory is always nice to see.
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Old 07-19-2006, 02:23 AM
Demelza Demelza is offline Scan Demelza
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Grindlewald (I can't spell it, I too don't have Harry Potter 1 with me, but that's 'cause I lent it to my Mum and we live a long way from each other) - that's the name of the evil wizard DD beat. I always wondered whether that information would have any tie ins to Voldy's downfall.
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:10 AM
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Well, Iread it all and I think that it makes sense, but then you admit that by now Dumbledore is dead and isn't coming back. You said yourself that he died a few days later. So, even if Dumbledore wasn't really killed by Snape he is still dead according to your theory, right?

I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that you are trying to prove Snape's innocents and not that Dumbledore is alive, I think.
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
...but then you admit that by now Dumbledore is dead and isn't coming back. You said yourself that he died a few days later. [/b]
No, he did not die a few days later. As far as Harry is concerned, Dumbledore's life did not continue in that time, but he did not die. Nothing about Dumbledore is so simple.

Quote:
...I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that you are trying to prove Snape's innocence... [/b]
Oh, we know that Snape is innocent. That's ancient history. The only question that remains is, "How did Dumbledore know that he could trust Snape." The answer is that he knows because the Time Traveler told him so.

===================================

It's like "The Six Blind Men and the Elephant." Everybody was right. Everybody had a piece of the truth, but we couldn't make the seemingly contradictory elements cooperate. I've been saying all along that "It's all in there. We just need to put it together." Like the fake Moody telling Harry, "Go with your strengths... A simple spell to get you what you need... Put it together...It's not that difficult." Dumbledore is dead, but he didn't die.

As I have said, he never needed to lie. He did need to work hard on certain puzzles because he honestly did not know the answers. He was always calm, always seemed to know what to do, as though he knew something that no one else did. Well, he did know something. He knew that his hand was still healthy, which meant that the current situation was not his last. He knew that the Time Traveler would step in before things got out of hand. He knew that, if something bad did happen, it was the lesser of the potential evils and the best of all possible worlds.

===================================

My son sneered. “Maybe she can write another book about his adventures through time.”

“What adventures?” I asked. He knows everything now. He’s just delivering messages.”

"Ah, but he will still have obsticles. He’ll need to fight the Time Hydra…”
(Impersonation of a snarling monster.)

"And he’ll get to meet Eddy!”
(from “The Hitch-hiker’s Guide to the Galaxy.”
Ford mentioned “Eddys in time…” and Arthur asked, “Who’s Eddie?)


“Eddie’s in time,” said my son.
“So I’ve heard,” said I.

My kid was kidding but I like the idea…

===================================

If the Time Traveler theory didn’t give you a headache, try this one:

Fawkes was never born and will never die.

Dumbledore's life has a beginning and an end. It begins, it plays out, it folds back on itself, loops around and runs parallel to itself for a little while, and then it ends.

Fawkes' life is just one, big, very lopsided, temporal loop.
The Time Traveler drops off Fawkes with the young Dumbledore, and Fawkes starts the whole thing over.
Not a spiral, but one seemless loop, without beginning or end.
He is still an animal and I’m not sure how his mind works, but whatever Fawkes knows, he always knows and has always known and will always know. Dejavu forever, every waking minute. (spell?)
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Old 07-19-2006, 08:10 AM
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Your Fawkes theory is confusing but not Headache confusing. I get it. lol
I think.
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Old 07-19-2006, 10:48 AM
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I have mixed feeling about the idea that Dumbledore is using a timeturner at all, but here are my thoughts for now.
Quote:
The one element he would neglect to mention in the memoirs is the Time-Traveler element. Best not to put it in writing and risk letting the world know about that. It's a neat trick that could be used again by someone with less honorable intentions.
[/b]
I don't know about that. People know about timeturners. It's not like they are a secret, so mentioning them in his memoirs wouldn't necessarily have any negative effect.
Quote:
His "death" was fake, but it was real in that his life did not continue for
more than a few days beyond the "funeral." He did not come back, did
not see Harry again, and died in the distant past.
[/b]
The whole point in him faking his death would be for Voldemort to think he is dead when he is actually not. What purpose would this serve if he was dead just a few days later anyway?
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:24 AM
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Dumbledore might not have wanted people to know that he went back in time after he faked his death, ya kno.

When would Dumbledore have gotten the Time-turner? It would have had to have been before the 5ht year at Hogwarts right?
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Old 07-19-2006, 06:06 PM
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"Merlin\'s beard, no," said Dumbledore, smiling. "Not unless you are foolish enough to force me to."[/i][/b]

That scene works now. Actually, I suspect that this was one of the few times when the Time Traveler hung around during the action itself.
He does not, if you will remember, need a cloak to become invisible. And he can be as handy as anyone with those non-verbal spells and with Legilimency.

I neglected to mention that the main purpose of the memoirs is that he needed to take careful notes for himself, during the first round, his 150-year, natural life. This will allow the Time Traveler to know when to drop in on his stroll back through time. 150 years is a lot to remember. And, since he had them anyway, why not drop off the sanitized version with someone like McGonagall?
Or rather, in this new-and-improved-thanks-to-Aberforth-version, give it to Harry.

Throw me some more. It just keeps getting better.
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Old 07-19-2006, 07:02 PM
Demelza Demelza is offline Scan Demelza
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Nicholas Flamel owned the Philosopher's Stone. His wife was still alive too, but I'll need my Mum to finish reading book one and return it to me next time I go to see her to find out what her name was.
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