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Year VII: Deathly Hallows Discuss, New Thought at Books: The Restricted Section of the Library forum
I don't even know if I can put this into words right now, because the idea just struck me, ...

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Old 07-01-2006, 08:54 PM
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I don't even know if I can put this into words right now, because the idea just struck me, but here's for trying, anyway. . .

I used to think that Sirius was dead, and Dumbledore is alive.
Now I'm thinking, what if neither of them are dead?
I think maybe Dumbledore just needs Harry to think that so that Harry will have the anger he needs to kill Voldemort.

Maybe Sirius doesn't have to be alive for this theory to be true, but it might explain why Dumbledore wanted Snape to "kill" him so badly.

I know it might not make a whole lot of sense at this point...oh well.
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:54 PM
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Old 07-01-2006, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
I don't even know if I can put this into words right now, because the idea just struck me, but here's for trying, anyway. . .

I used to think that Sirius was dead, and Dumbledore is alive.
Now I'm thinking, what if neither of them are dead?
I think maybe Dumbledore just needs Harry to think that so that Harry will have the anger he needs to kill Voldemort.

Maybe Sirius doesn't have to be alive for this theory to be true, but it might explain why Dumbledore wanted Snape to "kill" him so badly.

I know it might not make a whole lot of sense at this point...oh well.
[/b]
Yes, some clarification would be helpful. I don't think you really fully explained why you think Sirius is alive.
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Old 07-01-2006, 10:03 PM
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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mione @ Jul 1 2006, 11:54 PM) [snapback]26417[/snapback]
Quote:
I don't even know if I can put this into words right now, because the idea just struck me, but here's for trying, anyway. . .

I used to think that Sirius was dead, and Dumbledore is alive.
Now I'm thinking, what if neither of them are dead?
I think maybe Dumbledore just needs Harry to think that so that Harry will have the anger he needs to kill Voldemort.

Maybe Sirius doesn't have to be alive for this theory to be true, but it might explain why Dumbledore wanted Snape to "kill" him so badly.

I know it might not make a whole lot of sense at this point...oh well.
[/b]
Yes, some clarification would be helpful. I don't think you really fully explained why you think Sirius is alive.
[/b][/quote]

Well, I don't think that he is definitely alive. . .it's just that this new perspective has me saying, "Why not?"
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Old 07-14-2006, 07:26 AM
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...maybe Dumbledore just needs Harry to think that so that Harry will have the anger he needs to kill Voldemort.
Maybe Sirius doesn't have to be alive for this theory to be true, but it might explain why Dumbledore wanted Snape to "kill" him so badly.
[/b]
Food for thought. Must digest.
Another good one from the (no longer quite so) new kid.
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Old 07-14-2006, 09:40 AM
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Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me to think about this again, haha, I almost forgot.
Anyway, I'm not sure of this anymore...I mean, I've been wondering why in HBP Dumbledore was showing Harry bits of Riddle's past. The obvious reason being to find the objects Riddle may have used for his horcruxes, but DD also seems very interested when Harry shows what seems to be sympathy towards Riddle. . .
Now I'm confused.
But, if Dumbledore does want Harry to have the anger to kill Voldemort, it would explain why he froze Harry while Snape "killed" him...or, maybe, like everyone else says, it was just for the purpose of making Harry believe?
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Old 07-14-2006, 11:32 AM
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That can work, not as a way for Sirius to survive, but as a reason for faking the death of Sirius and/or Dumbledore. In the minds of the characters, this could be a motivator for Harry. It did motivate him to chase Bella out into the atrium, which was fool-hardy. But after that, it just left him depressed.

Three problems:
(1) They both know that Harry is already motivated.
(2) They both know that Harry has suffered enough.

(3) I think JKR had a reason for killing Sirius.
I have felt for a long time that JKR's true purpose in bringing Sirius into the story was to make him lovable and then kill him off. This idea started nudging its way into my mind at the end of the fifth book, but I pushed it away. She made him too lovable. But plot-wise, she made him expendable. I hate to say it, but Sirius doesn't really have a role in the main plot. Like Harry, I didn't believe at first that Sirius was gone. But by the end of the fifth book, I was satisfied. Search your feelings, Luke. I didn't like it, but it felt true.

My vague thought goes like this:
She killed off Cedric, a lovable but minor character, to wake us up to the idea that people can die.
Then she killed of Sirius, a lovable, major, but expendable character, to drive the point home.
She's set us up, and now expects us to believe that she would kill Dumbledore.
Nope. I'm not buying it.
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Old 07-14-2006, 02:08 PM
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I agree with you psyduck... dumbledore isnt dead. it would be the perfect plot... have us believe he died by setting it up and then he comes in to save the day... or something.

Nice signature Mione!
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Old 07-14-2006, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
That can work, not as a way for Sirius to survive, but as a reason for faking the death of Sirius and/or Dumbledore. In the minds of the characters, this could be a motivator for Harry. It did motivate him to chase Bella out into the atrium, which was fool-hardy. But after that, it just left him depressed.

Three problems:
(1) They both know that Harry is already motivated.
(2) They both know that Harry has suffered enough.

(3) I think JKR had a reason for killing Sirius.
I have felt for a long time that JKR's true purpose in bringing Sirius into the story was to make him lovable and then kill him off. This idea started nudging its way into my mind at the end of the fifth book, but I pushed it away. She made him too lovable. But plot-wise, she made him expendable. I hate to say it, but Sirius doesn't really have a role in the main plot. Like Harry, I didn't believe at first that Sirius was gone. But by the end of the fifth book, I was satisfied. Search your feelings, Luke. I didn't like it, but it felt true.

My vague thought goes like this:
She killed off Cedric, a lovable but minor character, to wake us up to the idea that people can die.
Then she killed of Sirius, a lovable, major, but expendable character, to drive the point home.
She's set us up, and now expects us to believe that she would kill Dumbledore.
Nope. I'm not buying it.
[/b]
Phyduck,Your so right,but how can they do that 2 Harry,I mean he has been through so much with his parents,sirius,Cedric,and now they are gonna make Harry think Dumbledore dead,I mean I know it wouldnt
really work if he knew right now,Do you think Dumbledore intends to tell Harry what they are doing?

Quote:
That can work, not as a way for Sirius to survive, but as a reason for faking the death of Sirius and/or Dumbledore. In the minds of the characters, this could be a motivator for Harry. It did motivate him to chase Bella out into the atrium, which was fool-hardy. But after that, it just left him depressed.

Three problems:
(1) They both know that Harry is already motivated.
(2) They both know that Harry has suffered enough.

(3) I think JKR had a reason for killing Sirius.
I have felt for a long time that JKR's true purpose in bringing Sirius into the story was to make him lovable and then kill him off. This idea started nudging its way into my mind at the end of the fifth book, but I pushed it away. She made him too lovable. But plot-wise, she made him expendable. I hate to say it, but Sirius doesn't really have a role in the main plot. Like Harry, I didn't believe at first that Sirius was gone. But by the end of the fifth book, I was satisfied. Search your feelings, Luke. I didn't like it, but it felt true.

My vague thought goes like this:
She killed off Cedric, a lovable but minor character, to wake us up to the idea that people can die.
Then she killed of Sirius, a lovable, major, but expendable character, to drive the point home.
She's set us up, and now expects us to believe that she would kill Dumbledore.
Nope. I'm not buying it.
[/b]
Phyduck,Your so right,but how can they do that 2 Harry,I mean he has been through so much with his parents,sirius,Cedric,and now they are gonna make Harry think Dumbledore dead,I mean I know it wouldnt
really work if he knew right now,Do you think Dumbledore intends to tell Harry what they are doing?
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Old 07-14-2006, 03:31 PM
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Eventually. Maybe when he practices his Occlumency.
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Old 07-14-2006, 05:27 PM
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...but DD also seems very interested when Harry shows what seems to be sympathy towards Riddle. . .[/b]
More food for thought. I missed it the first time. Must ponder.

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