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Year VII: Deathly Hallows Discuss, The Argument at The Restricted Section of the Library forum
There is such a big difference between the other times we've seen the killing curse done and the time ...

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Old 03-11-2006, 02:28 PM
RitaRox RitaRox is offline Scan RitaRox
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There is such a big difference between the other times we've seen the killing curse done and the time that Snape "killed" Dumbledore ..

Plus, JK has to make him nice! Because .. well because she just has to!
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:28 PM
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2006, 03:00 PM
cassi_granger cassi_granger is offline Scan cassi_granger
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Actually yeah you all might be right! A Nonverbal COULD work while he said AVEDA KEDAVERA cause remember with the cruciatus curse you have to REALL THINK of the person in pain what if its that way with AVEDA KEDAVERA?
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-11-2006, 08:16 PM
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Psyduck Psyduck is offline Scan Psyduck
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Ok, what's the deal with this "Cassi Granger"
character, this "adopted sister" of Hermione?
Is she your own fan fiction, or did I miss something?

------------------------------------------

anyway ---

Quote:
HP-1, In that first Potions class, Snape spoke of "...the beauty of the softly
simmering cauldron with its shimmering fumes, the delicate
power of liquids that creep through human veins, bewitching
the mind, ensnaring the senses... I can teach you how to bottle
fame, brew glory, even stopper death -- If you aren't as big a bunch
of dunderheads as I usually have to teach." He also mentioned
that "...asphodel and wormwood make a sleeping potion so
powerful it is known as the Drought of Living Death. A bezoar
is a stone taken from the stomach of a goat and it will save you
from most poisons."
HP-6, page 608, "Dumbledore's eyes were closed; but for the
strange angle of his arms and legs, he might have been
sleeping."

HP-5, page 614, (Fudge) "Or is there the usual simple explanation
involving a reversal of time, a dead man coming back to life,
and a couple of invisible dementors?"

HP-3, page 1, "Witch burning in the fourteenth century was
completely pointless." The "...burning had no effect what-
soever. The witch or wizard would perform a basic Flame
Freezing Charm and then pretend to shriek with pain while
enjoying a gentle, tickling sensation..."
HP-5, page 622 "Fawkes...swooped low over him.
Dumbledore...grasped the phoenix's long golden tail. There
was a flash of fire and the pair of them had gone."
HP-6, page 576 "But then, through the darkness, fire erupted:
crimson and gold, a ring of fire that surrounded the rock, so
that the Inferi holding Harry so tightly stumbled and faltered;
they did not dare pass through the flames… his wand was
raised like a torch and from its tip emanated the flames, like a
vast lasso, encircling them all with warmth... the ring of fire
moving with them, around them..."

HP-3, page 181, "...when the dementors came onto the Quidditch
field, Dumbledore "...ran onto the field as you fell, waved his
wand, and you sort of slowed down before you hit the ground..."
HP-6, Page 596, "...as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a
split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining
skull, and then he fell slowly backward, like a great rag doll,
over the battlements and out of sight."

HP-1, page 29, "He couldn't remember being in the car when his
parents died. ...when he strained his memory... a blinding flash
of green light and a burning pain on his forehead."
HP-4, page 4, "...the Riddles all appeared to be in perfect health --
apart from the fact that they were all dead."
HP-4, page 15, "There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound,
and Frank Bryce crumpled. He was dead before he hit the floor."
HP-4, page 216, "There was a flash of blinding green light and a
rushing sound, as though a vast, invisible something was
soaring through the air -- instantaneously the spider rolled over
onto its back, unmarked, but unmistakably dead."
HP-4, page 638, (Kill the spare) "A blast of green light blazed
through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to
the ground beside him... he opened his stinging eyes. Cedric
was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was
dead. ...Harry stared into Cedric's face, at his open gray eyes,
blank and expressionless as the windows of a deserted house,
at his half-open mouth, which looked slightly surprised."
HP-5, page 721, (McGonagall) "...the red beams collided with her.
For a moment she looked luminous, illuminated by an eerie red
glow, then was lifted right off her fee, landed hard on her back,
and moved no more.
HP-6, Page 596, (on the tower) "A jet of green light shot from the
end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest.
Harry's scream of horror never left him; silent and unmoving,
he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air.
For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the
shining skull, and then he fell slowly backward, like a great rag
doll, over the battlements and out of sight.
HP-6, page 599, "'Impedimentia!' yelled Harry. His jinx hit
Amycus in the chest: He gave a pig like squeal of pain, was
lifted off his feet and slammed into the opposite wall, slid
down it, and fell out of sight.."

HP-6, page 592, "No, Draco," said Dumbledore quietly. "It is my
mercy, and not yours, that matters now."

HP-6, page 603, Teaching right to the end: "Blocked again and
again and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and
your mind closed, Potter!" sneered Snape, deflecting the curse
once more.

HP-1, page 283, "Yes..." said Ron softly, it's the only way. I've got
to be taken... That's chess!" snapped Ron. "You've got to
make some sacrifices!"

HP-6, page 591, "He cannot kill you if you are already dead.
Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more
completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can
send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her
likewwise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in
your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort
probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised
that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they
would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the
moment in Azkaban... When the time comes, we can protect
him too. Come over to the right side, Draco... you are not a
killer..."

HP-1, page 213, Dumbledore said, "I don't need a cloak to become
invisible."
[/b]
Like I said in "Snape, the Death Stopper," It's all there.
Dumbledore is alive and well.
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Old 03-11-2006, 09:12 PM
frontpagenews frontpagenews is offline Scan frontpagenews
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[size=4][color=#CC66CC][font=Arial Black] Here's a question dumbledor being a great wizard as he is dont you think he would have some clue to what was going to happen? Could he have been really duped by snape or was he right that snape would be loyal enough to kill him at his request?
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Old 03-12-2006, 05:08 AM
parvati patil parvati patil is offline Scan parvati patil
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Snape Lies to Narcissa and Bellatrix... Twice
it may be long but just as important

During the meeting that Snape has at his house with Narcissa and Bellatrix in chapter 2, Snape tries to explain to them why he never killed Harry all those years at Hogwarts when he had ample opportunity:

"Of course, it became apparent to me very quickly that he had no extraordinary talent at all. He has fought his way out of a number of tight corners by a simple combination of sheer luck and more talented friends. He is mediocre to the last degree..." (HBP pg 31/36)

But we know Snape knows this is a lie. We know Snape knows that Harry is a powerful wizard. We know he knows Harry is a parselmouth. We know he knows Harry could conjure a corporeal patronus when he was just 13 years old. We know he knows Harry has stood up to and prevailed against Voldemort five times!

But not even one whole page later, Narcissa is crying to Snape she has something she wants to say, but has been forbidden to talk about by Voldemort. Snape immediately replies that she should follow Voldemort's orders, and sister Bellatrix agrees. But Snape appears troubled by the conversation:

But Snape had gotten to his feet and strode to the small window, peered through the curtains, and then closed them again with a jerk. He turned around to face Narcissa, frowning. (HBP pg 32/37)

What happened to make him jerk the curtains closed all of a sudden and turn back to the women, frowning? Has he had a revelation?

It is only at this point that he confides in them that he already knows the plan, that Voldemort has already told him. He's lying again!

If he already knew the plan, why would he have taken the position, just one moment earlier, that she should follow Voldemort's law and not speak of it?

We know Snape is a powerful Legilimens, we learned that in the Occlumency scenes with Snape and Harry in Order of the Phoenix

because of that i think snape is having a plan with dumbledore and he just wants to show the death eaters that he is on voldemort's side


If you believe that Snape is acting on Dumbledore's orders to kill him (or possibly just make it look like he killed him, although he'd probably still be hurting him), then Snape's demeanor and Dumbledore's final words take on a whole new meaning.

...somebody else had spoken Snape's name, quite softly. "Severus..." The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he had experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading. Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. ... Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred etched in the harsh lines of his face. "Severus... Please..." (HBP pg 595/556)

In that passage the reader is supposed to believe that Snape hates Dumbledore and feels revulsion for him.

But to help us understand the real meaning of Snape's feelings of revulsion and hatred, J.K. used almost the exact same words for what Harry was feeling just one chapter previous:

"You...you can't stop, Professor," said Harry. "You've got to keep drinking, remember? You told me you had to keep drinking. Here..." Hating himself, repulsed by what he was doing, Harry forced the goblet back toward Dumbledore's mouth ... (HBP pg 571/534)

Even though Snape was to kill Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders, it must have been something that was still really emotional and difficult for Snape to do, exactly as it was for Harry to make Dumbledore drink the potion.

The feeling of revulsion on Snape's face was not for Dumbledore, but the act he knew he had to commit. The hatred was not for Dumbledore, but for what Dumbledore was making him do.

And when Dumbledore said, "Severus... Please..." he wasn't begging "please don't". What he was really saying was, "Severus, please kill me, as you promised you would."



from that information i think dmbledore is not dead
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:39 AM
GinnyWeasleyRocks GinnyWeasleyRocks is offline Scan GinnyWeasleyRocks
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Nice thoughts, parvati!

You've given me alot more to think about now, thanks!
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2006, 07:54 AM
parvati patil parvati patil is offline Scan parvati patil
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Quote:
Nice thoughts, parvati!

You've given me alot more to think about now, thanks!
[/b]
ur welcome
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Old 03-13-2006, 06:39 PM
GinnyWeasleyRocks GinnyWeasleyRocks is offline Scan GinnyWeasleyRocks
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But we also have to realize that these are all maybes. *sighs* I guess we'll never know until the seventh book. <_<
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2006, 08:47 PM
parvati patil parvati patil is offline Scan parvati patil
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Quote:
But we also have to realize that these are all maybes. *sighs* I guess we'll never know until the seventh book. <_<
[/b]

even i'm waitin for the 7th book
i've heard it is the last book, is it?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-14-2006, 05:00 AM
GinnyWeasleyRocks GinnyWeasleyRocks is offline Scan GinnyWeasleyRocks
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Yeah, happily yet sadly.
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