Peter's Debt

I think this whole wizard's debt thing comes down to conscience, rather than some mystical, magical link. The fact that Dumbledore says that Peter owes Harry a life-debt only stems from the fact that Dumbledore has faith in the inherent goodness within Peter. After all, Peter only really returns to Voldemort because he has nowhere else to go. You can tell that at the start of GoF. I think the description runs something like "Pettigrew's face was etched with revulsion." Pettigrew does not want to be bad, he just doesn't have any choice in the matter because he is sans spine and won't face up to what he has done.

That said, I think that this whole debt thing is going to be settled with Pettigrew helping Harry out of some certain death scenario in the 7th. You know, kind of a deus ex machina thing. Maybe Harry gets taken prisoner and Peter helps him escape, or in the final battle, he distracts Voldemort, sacrificing himself and allowing Harry to strike a final, deadly blow. Something, anyway, that is going to redeem him in the end.

psyduckster and ottery: Great point about choice. I think you're right and that is the defining feature.

redboy: i dunno. I think there is a difference betwen choice and conscience. (Pinoccio (sp?) didn't have a conscience but made choices). i don't think Petigrew's choices have been defined by conscience at all. Indeed, i wonder how much conscience Peter has. I Do think that his choices and actions have been informed by consciousness which is typified as self-preservation and spite.

In GoF we are told that Peter is revolted and he "flinches and shudders" (Aus,hardback, p14) at
'the thing Wormtail had been carrying [which] had the shape of a crouched human child, except Harry had never seen anything less like a child. It was hairless and scaky-looking, a dark, raw, reddish black. Its arms and legs were thin and feeble and its face -no child alive ever had a face like that -was flat and snake-like, with gleaming red eyes- ... and Harry saw the look of revulsion on Wormtail's weak, pale face...' (pp555-6).
Sorry but what here, or anywhere, implies that Petigrew doesn't want to be bad??
He wants to be anything that sees him stand out in a crowd, get one over his condescending friends AND gets him power and glory.
There is nothig loyal or thoughtful or, in the least , loving, about Petigrew. He is a bad man and always has been. That's why Sirius laughs when he discovered Peter's treachery, because he realised the extent of his nastiness and the Marauders' stupidty in buying it for all those years.

I agree redboy that Peter will help Harry out of a sticky siituation but I don't think it'll be by choice. I can't imagine Peter turning from the darkside now -all a little too late!

So. I think that though a debt may be created by the conscious act of another, the debtor is bound in a very magical/ unconscious way.

Hmmm, maybe there is this magic that actually does make a bond between wizards that owe the other wizard. Or maybe Dumbledore was being himself again (God, he does that alot) and it's not really a magical bond but more of "the goodness that's in everyone" that Dumbledore's talking about.

So maybe, here's my point finally, Peter doesn't really HAVE to help Harry at all, but it's just that Dumbledore believes he will.

Because, we all know, Peter would never defy Voldemort because we all also know that Voldemort would just kill him there on the spot, and Peter is and never was that brave.

The one thing everyone seems to agree upon about Pettigrew is that he's a spineless coward.
I think Redboy makes a valid point there, somewhere.
Follow me... Pettigrew was good friends with James, Sirius, and Lupin - at one time - valued enough to be included in the invention of the very dubious Marauder's Map, considered "good enough" to be called a Marauder himself, helped through the process of becoming an animagus, and trusted enough (if only by Sirius) to be made Secret keeper. Also, Pettigrew was picked to be in Gryffindor - a thing he could not have done if he hadn't posessed some measure of courage - or loyalty.
Now, Voldemort is the biggest bully on the block. He got to Pettigrew - whether he tortured him physically, blackmailled him, or frankly scared the bloody bogies out of him - he forced Peter to do what he would rather not.
Up to the moment of Pettigrew's actual betrayal, he had a great deal of "good side" qualities. Pettigrew has a weakness. Voldemort found it. And Voldemort used it again and again to keep Pettigrew under his thumb.
Maybe one of two things will happen... Pettigrew will have an opportunity to pay back Harry where it won't "cost" him anything, but Harry will know he did it only because he owes him. The other thing that might happen is - because Pettigrew and Neville Longbottom have strange likenesses - Pettigrew will encounter Neville and see, like holding a mirror to his face, the full reality of his choices. Maybe Pettigrew will draw strength from Neville (also a timid, clumsy fellow) who had made far more honorable choices.

Replies welcome

Good one. I always had a vague feeling that there was something there,
but I couldn't name it. Still can't.
At one point I was thinking that Neville would be like Peter and betray Harry.
I know -- I know -- I wouldn't say that today, but after the third book it crossed my mind.

I like the idea of Peter meeting Neville and learning some new tricks.

Yeah, that image thing is a good idea!

Like Psyduck, you just know that there's something there, but you can't really name it. So, yeah, I can see that happening.

"pavarti" asked about Peter.
Just thought I'd drag this one out from oblivion.

?????????

Okay, now you've completely lost me Psyduck...WHAT!?

Never mind.
"Pavarti" started a new thread about Peter.
I guess s/he lost interest.

As you were, troops.

lol, Thanks for clearing that up with me. *does salute*