Snape Is Not Voldemort's Man

Okay, here's my theory on Dumbledore's death, if anyone wants to read!

I think that Dumbledore knew about Snape's vow to Narcissa, and that Snape is not on Voldemort's side! Here are my reasons...

On pg 30 Snape tells Bella that he can't speak the name of the Order's Headquarters. (Snape knows very well where the headquarters is and could lead anyone there without speaking at all.)

on pg 30 Snape says that his information has lead to the "murder" of Emmeline Vance. (If Snape was on Voldemort's side, the killing would be justified in his mind. He would not refer to it as "murder".)

on pg31 Snape says that Harry had no extraordinary talent at all, and that he is Mediocre to the last degree. (Snape knows that Harry is talented in at least Defence of the Dark Arts, in other words Snape's lying to Bella)

on pg 31 Snape tells Bella that Dumbledore got a serious injury (but didn't tell them that the injury came from trying to find and destroy a Horcrux, that would definately be something to let Voldemort in on wouldn't it?)

on pg 32 Snape lets on like he knows of the mission but you can tell he doesn't, he's fishing for details.

on pg 36 you see where Snape is being pressured by Bella to take the Unbreakable Vow.

on pg 36 Snape's hand twitches during the Vow spell (not fully wanting to do it?)

on pg 55-56 Dumbledore is talking to the Dursleys and it sounds like he knows he won't be around next summer

on pg 58 Dumbledore tells Harry that he doesn't need to worry about being attacked tonight because he is with him. (Dumbledore knows that its Draco's mission to kill him therefore other Death Eaters won't be messing with him.)

on pg 59 Dumbledore says that Voldemort is using Occlumency against Harry (If Harry saw into Voldemorts thoughts he'd know about the "mission")

on pg 79 Harry finds out that he won't be taking Occlumency classes with Snape anymore ( If Harry saw into Snape's mind he'd see the "unbreakable vow" scene?)

on pg 215 Dumbledore says it would not be good for people to find out how much he knows about Voldemort or his secrets

on pg 277 Dumbledore says that Death Eaters who say they are in Voldemort's confidences are deluted. (Snape told Bella that he was)

on pg 322 Snape asks Draco what he's hiding from his master and Draco says Nothing from him, I just don't want YOU butting in.

on pg 323 Snape says that Draco has been avoiding him all term and Draco tells Snape he doesn't need his protection.

on pg 323 and 324 Snape is fishing for details again (He never knew the plan)

on pg 332 Lupin gives Harry a whole lecture about Dumbledore trusting Snape and that Dumbledore probably already knows, about the Snape/Malfoy conversation.

on pg 359 Dumbledore tells Harry he is not concerned about the Snape/Malfoy conversation that Harry overheard.

on pg 361 Harry realizes that Dumbledore never really trusted Tom Riddle. (This goes to the fact that Harry thinks Dumbledore has misplaced his trust in Snape. Harry thinks that Dumbledore has been wrong before then realizes that Dumbledore never really trusted Tom.)

on pg 404 Hagrid talks about how smart Dumbledore is (There have been several instances of the remarkability of Dumbledore's brains in this book, most coming from Dumbledore himself)

on pg 405 - 406 Hagrid tells Harry about a squabble Snape and Dumbledore had and he says that Snape told Dumbledore maybe he didn't want to do it anymore and Dumbledore told Snape that he agreed to do it and that was that.
(I think "it" is the killing of Dumbledore)

on pg 446 Dumbledore knew the Defence against the Dark Arts position was cursed or jinxed when he gave it to Snape. (Dumbledore knew that Snape wouldn't be returning to the position anyways.)

on pg 551 Dumbledore makes Harry swear he'll save himself if Dumbledore tells him to and Harry waivers on his answer a little (therefore Dumbledore had to freeze him when the stuff hit the fan or Harry would have tried to save him)

on pg 554 Dumbledore tells Rosemerta that he wants to go to the Hogs Head instead of her pub. (He knew she was being used by Malfoy?)

on pg 558 Dumbledore tells Harry that sometimes pain is unavoidable.

Dumbledore has also said before that there are worse things than death but that Voldemort didn't see that.

So, there we go, my thoughts! I'd love some other opinions on this!

Sorry its so long!

good job, first of all.
i think you picked up a lot of subtle points
that could easily have been missed or deemed irrelevant.

i agree that in the end, snape will be revealed to be
on Dd's side, that "killing" Dd with the avada kedavra
was part of a plan, and that (ad nauseum , i say) we have not
seen the last of Dumbledore yet.

(do we really believe possibly the greatest wizard of all time is
written off from the books, his last words being "severus please"?
i most definitely think not.)

the reason that Dumbledore trusted Snape had not been revealed yet,
and it seemed nobody knew, not Mr and Mrs Weasley, Hagrid,
or Professor McGonagall. it must have been a d.a.m.n. solid one though.

First off, we should step back and look at this 'plan' that dumbledore and snape supposibly have. There are a few big flaws in it.

One. Compare the benifits of Snape's death vs. Dumbledore's.
Dumbledore was the only one Voldermort ever feared. He was a wizard bright enough to figure out voldermort's Horcruxs and destroy at least one. He's brilliant, smooth runs the resistance, and is a stablizing force in the wizarding world. Who's snape? Just some potions teacher. If he dies, not much happens. Sure, they lose the inside link to voldermort- but that hasn't been horribly useful has it? Snape wasn't even let in on the plan to lure Harry into the DOM, or the attack on the DOM. Snape's really not all that useful.

Two. No one was informed.
This is key. Harry, for one, will never, ever trust snape again. Never. Let's face facts, folks... You can tell harry all the stories you want, but he isn't going to listen. Dumbledore promised Harry that he'd let him in on all he knew. If there was this big plan, why wasn't Harry let in? Dumbledore trusted him with the destruction of the Horcruxs, but not this? Who would Snape report to? Who would all his spying help, anyway? Apperantly, nobody in the order was told about the plan, as we see them all in the hospital wing, nobody comes out and says- 'ahh, but dumbledore told me of a plan'...

Dumbledore would have realized, had he made a plan, that someone needed to know in advance. No one will believe snape now.


In reality, I should expect the theory. It's typical denial- "dumbledore just can't be dead". Yea, actually he can. Remember Sirius Black? If you step back and look over the plot, there is simply no room for such a theory. Yes- the passages in the book are meant to keep you guessing until the end. But the end is fact, folks. Fact, cannon, whatever you call it, it flat out happened.

I think Snape and Dd having the argument that was overheard will end up being a factor. Lets not forget thatJ.K. used an overheard argument between Snape and Quierel(sp?) in book one as a great misdirection. I think that could prove to be the case here as well. I hope Snape turns out to be good because every group of good guys needs that loose cannon who alawys walks the edge kind of like Rabbit in Whinnie the Pooh.

TeenLeigh's got it.

I've been wanting to believe the conspiracy theory, but I wasn't there yet.
It works.

And yes, Snape can still be useful, even without a connection.
So can Peter, or any death eater who wants to be.

I'm not sure what to believe. I've heard TeenLeigh's theory before and was really for it. However, awigo50 really does have a point. Perhaps Dumbledore and Snape had a plan, but it seems unlikely that Dumbledore would leave Hogwarts while he is the only one Voldemort feared, or leave Harry in his desperate time of need. I don't think we've heard the last of Dumbledore....he's too great a man for his last moments to be while he's pleading. As for a conspiracy theory.....it might be a bit far-fetched. But with Jo, you never know.

I agree with TeenLeigh. I believe that Snape is on the side of the Order, and that Dumbledore knew of his promise to Narcissa. Snape really could not have said no to her request without letting them on to where his true loyalties lay. It seems that, although Snape told Narcissa and Bellatrix that he knew of Voldemort's plan, he really did not. Through the entire book, he is trying to get Draco to tell him the plan. And this quote has really stuck out in my head...

I was comin' outta the forest the other evenin' an' I overheard 'em talking -- well, arguin'. ... I jus' heard Snape sayin' Dumbledore took too much fer granted an' maybe he -- Snape -- didn' wan' ter do it anymore ... Dumbledore told him flat out he'd agreed ter do it an' that was all there was to it." (HBP pg 405/380)

I think that in this scene that Snape is saying that he really does not want to fufill his promise to Narcissa, but Dumbledore reminds him that he must.

A great site about all the Snape/Dumbledore controversy is dumbledoreisnotdead.com. Check it out!!!

I personally like the idea of it being part of a bigger plan. But I do have one thing to point out and its a small thing your first point about Snape not being able to tell Bella about where the order meets, Snape could not have said if he wanted to .. remember only the secret keeper can tell anyone where the location of headquarters is. (OOTP remember Moody told Harry only Dumbledore could tell people where it was located. I know everyone talks about where it is but they were all told originally by Dumbledore they can't tell anyone else its a spell to protect the Order.) Just wanted to point that out. But I really want Dumbledore to be alive in the end!

Does anyone think that when Snape first came to Dumbledore rigth after James and Lily's death, that he swore the unbreakable vow with Dumbledore? It might explain why Dumbledore was so adamant about trusting Snape.

Like dumbledore & lupin, I too would be very interested in what made Dumbledore never question snape's loyalty. Whatever it is, I'm pretty sure JK will make it clear before it's over.



"And as I am, excuse me, perhaps a little smarter than most, my mistakes tend to be correspondingly huger. -Albus D.