Snape Is Not Voldemort's Man

dumbledore could have made an unbreakable vow was with snape, it's very possible. the only thing is... what would the vow be about? <_< would it be to protect somebody, or... possibly... (this sounds AWFUL but it could be true) maybe dumbledore made the vow to wait for snape to kill him until harry was well informed about how to defeat voldemort! oh, that's awful, but it could be clue! <_<

You know,I've heard a lot of people thinking that Dumbledore made an unbreakable vow with Snape and that's why he trusted him so much.Hmm...Sounds reasonable to me.However,I think Dumbledore was above that.I don't think he would ever make someone do something that would endanger their lives that way because in a form that would be some form of blackmail(somone is doing something they don't want to do but have to do because something is at stake).If he made Snape make an unbreakable vow with him,it would be like do it or else you're dead.And that was not Dumbledore's style.It doesn't matter what the vow was about,it's still the same thing,do it or die.And Dumbledore to me was a brilliant wizard,a very very noble man,kind hearted,I could go on and on but the point is that he had too much integrity(remember that the good guys play by certain rules and the bad guys don't).He will be deeply missed.

Well even if Dumbledore and Snape made an unbreakable Vow someone else had to have known about it - a third person would have to had done the binding for the spell (remember 3 people were needed for Snapes/Malfoy's unbreakable.) So who else would know about that?

Hello All!

Its been awhile since I posted! Been vacationing in the South of France! HA, my computer crashed! But only because its a day older than Adam! It needs to be retired to a museum somewhere! Anyway...

I agree with you SirusBlack, I don't think Dumbledore trusted Snape because of an unbreakable vow! I think it was something that Dumbledore KNEW about Snape. Whether Snape told him about "it" or if Dumbledore was involved in "it" I don't know. I think it is probably something along the lines of Snape betraying Voldemort BIG TIME at some point or something very "sirius" (just a play on words, not a theory). I don't buy the "he felt soo guilty cuz James and Lily died" crap! It has got to go way deeper than that! But what, is a mystery to me!

Oh and by the way I found a misspelling in one of my posts, it should have been mention not metion. Sorry!

I have another question to ask yalls opinion on! (yes, that's how I'd say it person to). Okay here goes! If Snape took THE VOW with Narcissa and Bella bound it for them, then Snape would die anyway if they faked the death? I'm sure that the magical powers would know if THE VOW had been fufilled or not! It is my opinion that he would have (died)! Now my question is this, could Snape or anyone else for that matter have killed Bella before the invasion of the Death Eaters at Hogwarts and void THE VOW? Bella was not at Hogwarts that night. Just a thought! Another thought I have is that maybe the wording of THE VOW is flexible enough so that Snape didn't actually have to KILL Dumbledore. I loaned all of my books out so I can't check on this sorry! But, there is a possibility there, at least until someone checks the wording of THE VOW.

Okay,I'm done. Thanks for listening to (reading) my babble!

Hey thats a good theory!! I hope Bella is dead. Although I always hoped that Neville would finish her off.
About the veil...In the bible when Jesus died the veil in the temple was torn in two and the dead people who were holy came back to life...
Hmmmm...I'm just wondering if this could have anything to do with the veil.
Remember Harry and Luna could hear voices from beyond the veil and Luna says something about the people just lurking out of site...
What do you think?

I am leaning towards Snape being on the side of Dumbledore and The Order, but I do not think that Dumbledore knew about Snape's vow to Narcissa, which complicates things even further. Here's the passage, from page 588.

"Why didn't you stop me then?" Malfoy demanded.

"I tried, Draco. Professor Snape has been keeping watch over you on my orders--"

"He hasn't been doing your orders, he promised my mother--"

"Of course that's what he would tell you, Draco, but--"

Of course that's what Snape would tell him, because that's what he did. This doesn't necessarily mean Snape is on Voldemort's side, but it does beg the question: why would Snape have not told Dumbledore about the vow? The only thing I can thing of is that maybe you cannot tell anyone else of your vow. If Dumbledore has made an unbreakable vow with Snape, that would also explain why Dumbledore has told no one else why he trusts Snape.

I know that it's not definitive, but hardly anything in the world of Harry Potter is at this point . So, it's just my stab.

I also think, like the website that was pointed out, that there is a decent chance that Dumbledore is not dead. What could be a bigger weapon for The Order than Voldemort believing Dumbledore to be dead?

Another important clue pointing to Dumbledore not being dead (stolen from dumbledoreisnotdead.com heehee) is this:

"I can help you, Draco." "No, you can't," said Malfoy, his wand shaking very badly indeed. "Nobody can. He told me to do it or he'd kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine." (HBP pg 591/552)

Wow, big clue if you ask me.

In the vow, Snape only swore to protect Draco, not to kill Dumbledore. Draco is safe and sound for now, and as such, Snape has not broken the vow. In fact, one possibility is that Snape was trying to fulfill the vow by allowing him to talk to Dumbledore and for Dumbledore to try to bring him onto the side of good. Draco is in much more danger while he is in league with the Death Eaters. Just a thought.

I agree with you Aberforth. I think he did keep his vow because snape did help Malfoy and kept him safe. If Dumby is really alive, Voldemort wouldn't know so he wouldn't kill Malfoy. hmmm...

Here's my thoughts...



I am leaning towards Snape being on the side of Dumbledore and The Order, but I do not think that Dumbledore knew about Snape's vow to Narcissa, which complicates things even further. Here's the passage, from page 588

"Why didn't you stop me then?" Malfoy demanded.

"I tried, Draco. Professor Snape has been keeping watch over you on my orders--"

"He hasn't been doing your orders, he promised my mother--"

"Of course that's what he would tell you, Draco, but--"

Of course that's what Snape would tell him, because that's what he did. This doesn't necessarily mean Snape is on Voldemort's side, but it does beg the question: why would Snape have not told Dumbledore about the vow?



My strongest point to support the theory that Dumbledore knew about the plan to kill him is the conversation Hagrid overheard. Where Snape tells Dumbledore that maybe he doesn't want to do "it" anymore and Dumbledore tells him, you said you would and that is that... I think they were talking about the fact that Snape had agreed to "kill" Dumbledore and Dumbledore told him he had to.

I am undecided about whether or not Dumbledore is really dead or in hiding thus the " " marks around kill.

Another is the way Dumbledore talked to Harry at the beginning of the book. He sounded like he knew he wouldn't be around next summer so he was trying to impress upon Harry the great importance of his staying at the Dursley's for one more summer. I think that it is interesting that Dumbledore felt the need to tell him to stay there. Seeing as how Harry has no where to go but the Dursley's, its strange for Dumbledore to tell him he has to go back next summer. Its like he was saying Whatever happens this term, you must go back to the Dursley's next summer. I mean Dumbledore had no reason to think Harry would not go back for the summer. Nothing had changed from the norm so, why would he suspect that Harry wouldn't go back? It seems like Dumbledore knew, Harry would be sooo upset by "something" that he would not want to go back to the Dursley's.

Another point is the fact that Dumbledore told Harry the night he picked him up from the Dursley's that he need not worry about any Death Eaters attacking them because he was with him. My opinion on this statement is that Dumbledore knew that Malfoy had been given the mission to kill him therefore no other Death Eaters would be likely to attack him, to do so would violate Voldemort's orders.

Yet another point is that when Harry told Mr. Weasley about the conversation between Malfoy and Snape, Mr. Weasley and Remus Lupin told Harry not to be surprised if Dumbleodore already knew about it. Which he did. He assured Harry that he had not told him anything he wasn't already aware of and that it did not worry him.

There are others as well but I'll stop there.




The only thing I can thing of is that maybe you cannot tell anyone else of your vow. If Dumbledore has made an unbreakable vow with Snape, that would also explain why Dumbledore has told no one else why he trusts Snape



I don't think the reason that Dumbledore trusts Snape is because of an UNBREAKABLE VOW. I think its because of what he KNOWS about Snape. It would have to be something so significant that Dumbledore unwaveringly trusts Snape. Something like Snape betraying Voldemort or the likes. That something could also be the reason that Dumbledore doesn't tell anyone why he trusts Snape.



I know that it's not definitive, but hardly anything in the world of Harry Potter is at this point . So, it's just my stab.

I also think, like the website that was pointed out, that there is a decent chance that Dumbledore is not dead. What could be a bigger weapon for The Order than Voldemort believing Dumbledore to be dead?



Another important clue pointing to Dumbledore not being dead (stolen from dumbledoreisnotdead.com heehee) is this:

"I can help you, Draco." "No, you can't," said Malfoy, his wand shaking very badly indeed. "Nobody can. He told me to do it or he'd kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine." (HBP pg 591/552)

Wow, big clue if you ask me.



This didn't make a very big impact on me the first time I read it but looking back after I knew Dumbledore was fixing to die it makes a huge impact. I do hope it is a clue to Dumbledore being in hiding and not dead.

Okay, I've put in my 2 cents worth. Thanks for listening.

About the veil...In the bible when Jesus died the veil in the temple was torn in two and the dead people who were holy came back to life...




I think you might have a small misconception of Matthews gospel. In the Bible, the veil closing off the Holy of the Holies IS torn in two from top to bottom but the saints did not come back to "life" as in living like we are. They were resurected, just as Jesus was. Very different from coming back to "life". Lazerus "came back to life" in the true sense of the phrase.

The significants of the torn veil is that man is no longer barred from the presense of God, not that people came back to life.

So, I don't see Black coming back to life even if the veil were to be ripped in two. I guess he could appear like a resurected person but he wouldn't be "alive" like we are.

Of course we are talking about a completely fictional world so the Bible probably has no bearing on the way witches and wizards live or die or live again!

Sorry for sounding preachy!