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Year VI: Half Blood Prince Discuss, Dumbledore Is Not Dead at The Restricted Section of the Library forum
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support ...

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Old 09-01-2005, 05:38 AM
harryisdbest harryisdbest is offline Scan harryisdbest
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These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really dead, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.

Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)

It's interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:

He could not understand how it happened -- Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -- Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)

Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.

The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.

Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.

The supposition that it was Dumbledore's plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.

Harry's own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later




We've seen Fawkes come in at the last moment and save Harry's life in Chamber of Secrets:

As Harry trembled, ready to close his eyes if it turned, he saw what had distracted the snake. Fawkes was soaring around its head, and the basilisk was snapping furiously at him with fangs long and thin as sabers -- Fawkes dived. His long golden beak sunk out of sight and a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor. (CoS pg 318/234)

And he also saved Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix:

... one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake had struck -- Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole. He burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. (OotP pg 814/719)

We know Fawkes was nearby the tower, as he shows up after Dumbledore's "death". So, why didn't Fawkes come to save Dumbledore this time?

I think the fact that he didn't makes it possible to believe that Dumbledore didn't want his life to be saved, and this supports the theory that it was Dumbledore's plan all along to "die" up on that tower that night.

4. The Flying Avada Kedavra

As soon as I read the description of exactly what happened the moment that Snape killed Dumbledore, little red flags were popping up in my brain, but I didn't pay attention to them at first. This was actually the very first clue that alerted me to this whole thing.

Every other time we've seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim simply falls over dead:

He was screaming so loudly that he never heard the words the thing in the chair spoke as it raised a wand. There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumbled. He was dead before he hit the floor. (GoF pg 15/19)

From high above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the spare." A swishing noise and a second voice, which screeched the words to the night: "Avada Kedavra!" A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to ground beside him. Cedric was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead. (GoF pg 638/553)

However, in Half-Blood Prince, when Snape curses Dumbledore with the same spell, Dumbledore violently flies up and away from the tower:

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. "Avada Kedavra!" A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silently he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight. (HBP pg 596/556)

Why would this application of the Avada Kedavra be so different from every other time we've seen it?

Perhaps his spell was different because even though those were the words Snape said, he didn't perform the killing curse at all. Remember all the importance this book gave to "nonverbal" spells? Perhaps Snape said Avada Kedavra, but the curse he was really thinking, the nonverbal one, was a different curse, one that only made it appear that Dumbledore was dead.

Even the title of the chapter this all takes place in is suspicous, "The Lightning-Struck Tower". Even though this is the name of the ominous tarot card that Trelawney was worried about back on page 543/507 in chapter 25, is it possible that J.K. is hinting here that the spell was not Avada Kedavra, just some green lightning sparks for show?


5. Don't Point That At Me Unless You Mean It

Several times in the course of the Harry Potter books, J.K. has told us that the Avada Kedavra is not a curse you can make lightly.

In Goblet of Fire, the fake Mad Eye Moody tells his DADA class:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed." (GoF pg 217/192)

And in Order of the Phoenix, we learn more about Avada Kedavra when Harry tries to curse Bellatrix:

Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715)

If Snape was really working on Dumbledore's orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn't want to kill Dumbledore, then isn't possible that the curse didn't kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?

Maybe dumbledore was never dead ?
what do u think ?
Is he really dead?
give your opinions .


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Old 09-01-2005, 05:38 AM
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Old 09-01-2005, 06:34 AM
Devoted2Harry05 Devoted2Harry05 is offline Scan Devoted2Harry05
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First off, I think it was a tragedy. Never did I EVER think that Dumbeldore would die! He was the last person in my mind who would. I would like to think that he isn't dead, but who knows? Perhaps he is alive, and may make an apperance in the 7th book. I can't imagine reading another book and not having Dumbeldore play such an important role.... i hope he is alive.
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Old 09-01-2005, 07:57 PM
harryhermyron harryhermyron is offline Scan harryhermyron
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Well, I think your point is very smart. And I agree with you in most of what you think but not completely. First, I do think Dumbledore is dead, i seriously doubt that he would fake his own death. He is no a person that would hide or anything like that. But I think he KNEW that he was going to die that night, and wanted Harry to witness it all. I also think that Snape was acting under Dumbledore orders. Maybe the spell had other effect or appereance because Dumbledore is tha most powerful wizard and his energy would be different from the common wizards.
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Old 09-03-2005, 02:54 PM
tigerlovesharry tigerlovesharry is offline Scan tigerlovesharry
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Well done, harryisdbest! you put a lot of info in your post and that really kept me thinking. I guess we'll have to wait and see what Jo has in store for us.
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Old 09-06-2005, 01:54 AM
!!seriously sirius!! !!seriously sirius!! is offline Scan !!seriously sirius!!
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Harryisdbest (or should I call you Sherlock Holmes!)- Good thinking mate! You really can explain things logically. But I think Dumbledore is dead and he and Snape planned it all.
Remember, Snape and Dumbledore were arguing and Snape was saying that he didn't want to go through with it.
Well I think they were talking about Snape killing Dumbledore.

A friend of a friend of mine me JKR. That in itself is pretty cooool but wait..there's more! She asked JKR about all the stuff that happened in the books about Snape etc. ANd JK said that it's not as it seems and you need to look beneath the surface.
Hmmmmm. That tells me one thing. If everything really is as it seems in the HBP then Snape is guilty. If everything is not as it seems, which is correct, then Snape is not really a deatheater.
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Old 09-07-2005, 01:54 AM
harryisdbest harryisdbest is offline Scan harryisdbest
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oh ! thank you !!{ and i will be happy if u call me sherlly }
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Old 09-08-2005, 08:32 AM
Devoted2Harry05 Devoted2Harry05 is offline Scan Devoted2Harry05
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(!!seriously sirius!!) you got a point there!! I think that maybe Dumbeldore is alive. I don't find it too surprising that maybe he faked his own death. Maybe he wanted Harry to see all of it because he just might come back. If JKR says that all is not what it seems to be then...

i think that maybe it was planned by Dumbeldore, Snape and Narcissa. There has to be a reason why Dumbeldore put so much trust in Snape....

idk people I can't wait for the other book to find out! LOL!
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Old 09-10-2005, 01:17 AM
harryisdbest harryisdbest is offline Scan harryisdbest
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neither can i wait .............
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Old 09-10-2005, 06:27 PM
tigerlovesharry tigerlovesharry is offline Scan tigerlovesharry
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I cant believe that the next book might not be comming out for another 2 years! (or so im told)
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Old 09-12-2005, 06:54 AM
Devoted2Harry05 Devoted2Harry05 is offline Scan Devoted2Harry05
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Jesus JKR definitely knows how to keep people in suspense!!!! I really truly hope that it doesn't take THAT long for the last one to come out! If i were her, i would write the book ASAP. Finally bring something that has caused me so much, to an end.

idk i guess thats just me. i guess we gotta pray
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