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Year VI: Half Blood Prince Discuss, Dumbledore Is Not Dead at Books: The Restricted Section of the Library forum
Ok thanks. I'll check it out later....

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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2006, 01:49 PM
hermione1990 hermione1990 is offline Scan hermione1990
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Ok thanks. I'll check it out later.
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Old 05-27-2006, 01:49 PM
The Harry Potter LUMOS Book Light - the perfect gift for your little wizard. Special book 7 launch price: $10 off!
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2006, 07:42 AM
gordonshumway gordonshumway is offline Scan gordonshumway
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These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really dead, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.

Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)

It's interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:

He could not understand how it happened -- Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -- Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)

Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.

The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.

Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.

The supposition that it was Dumbledore's plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.

Harry's own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later




We've seen Fawkes come in at the last moment and save Harry's life in Chamber of Secrets:

As Harry trembled, ready to close his eyes if it turned, he saw what had distracted the snake. Fawkes was soaring around its head, and the basilisk was snapping furiously at him with fangs long and thin as sabers -- Fawkes dived. His long golden beak sunk out of sight and a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor. (CoS pg 318/234)

And he also saved Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix:

... one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake had struck -- Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole. He burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. (OotP pg 814/719)

We know Fawkes was nearby the tower, as he shows up after Dumbledore's "death". So, why didn't Fawkes come to save Dumbledore this time?

I think the fact that he didn't makes it possible to believe that Dumbledore didn't want his life to be saved, and this supports the theory that it was Dumbledore's plan all along to "die" up on that tower that night.

4. The Flying Avada Kedavra

As soon as I read the description of exactly what happened the moment that Snape killed Dumbledore, little red flags were popping up in my brain, but I didn't pay attention to them at first. This was actually the very first clue that alerted me to this whole thing.

Every other time we've seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim simply falls over dead:

He was screaming so loudly that he never heard the words the thing in the chair spoke as it raised a wand. There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumbled. He was dead before he hit the floor. (GoF pg 15/19)

From high above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the spare." A swishing noise and a second voice, which screeched the words to the night: "Avada Kedavra!" A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to ground beside him. Cedric was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead. (GoF pg 638/553)

However, in Half-Blood Prince, when Snape curses Dumbledore with the same spell, Dumbledore violently flies up and away from the tower:

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. "Avada Kedavra!" A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silently he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight. (HBP pg 596/556)

Why would this application of the Avada Kedavra be so different from every other time we've seen it?

Perhaps his spell was different because even though those were the words Snape said, he didn't perform the killing curse at all. Remember all the importance this book gave to "nonverbal" spells? Perhaps Snape said Avada Kedavra, but the curse he was really thinking, the nonverbal one, was a different curse, one that only made it appear that Dumbledore was dead.

Even the title of the chapter this all takes place in is suspicous, "The Lightning-Struck Tower". Even though this is the name of the ominous tarot card that Trelawney was worried about back on page 543/507 in chapter 25, is it possible that J.K. is hinting here that the spell was not Avada Kedavra, just some green lightning sparks for show?


5. Don't Point That At Me Unless You Mean It

Several times in the course of the Harry Potter books, J.K. has told us that the Avada Kedavra is not a curse you can make lightly.

In Goblet of Fire, the fake Mad Eye Moody tells his DADA class:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed." (GoF pg 217/192)

And in Order of the Phoenix, we learn more about Avada Kedavra when Harry tries to curse Bellatrix:

Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715)

If Snape was really working on Dumbledore's orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn't want to kill Dumbledore, then isn't possible that the curse didn't kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?

Maybe dumbledore was never dead ?
what do u think ?
Is he really dead?
give your opinions .

[/b]
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old 08-02-2006, 08:06 AM
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I don't know. It's still a little hard to accept this, ya kno.
It's good, but not good enough for me.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2006, 05:07 PM
Abeconji Abeconji is offline Scan Abeconji
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Quote:
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really dead, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.

Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)

It's interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:

He could not understand how it happened -- Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -- Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)

Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.

The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.

Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.

The supposition that it was Dumbledore's plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.

Harry's own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later




We've seen Fawkes come in at the last moment and save Harry's life in Chamber of Secrets:

As Harry trembled, ready to close his eyes if it turned, he saw what had distracted the snake. Fawkes was soaring around its head, and the basilisk was snapping furiously at him with fangs long and thin as sabers -- Fawkes dived. His long golden beak sunk out of sight and a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor. (CoS pg 318/234)

And he also saved Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix:

... one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake had struck -- Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole. He burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. (OotP pg 814/719)

We know Fawkes was nearby the tower, as he shows up after Dumbledore's "death". So, why didn't Fawkes come to save Dumbledore this time?

I think the fact that he didn't makes it possible to believe that Dumbledore didn't want his life to be saved, and this supports the theory that it was Dumbledore's plan all along to "die" up on that tower that night.

4. The Flying Avada Kedavra

As soon as I read the description of exactly what happened the moment that Snape killed Dumbledore, little red flags were popping up in my brain, but I didn't pay attention to them at first. This was actually the very first clue that alerted me to this whole thing.

Every other time we've seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim simply falls over dead:

He was screaming so loudly that he never heard the words the thing in the chair spoke as it raised a wand. There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumbled. He was dead before he hit the floor. (GoF pg 15/19)

From high above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the spare." A swishing noise and a second voice, which screeched the words to the night: "Avada Kedavra!" A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to ground beside him. Cedric was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead. (GoF pg 638/553)

However, in Half-Blood Prince, when Snape curses Dumbledore with the same spell, Dumbledore violently flies up and away from the tower:

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. "Avada Kedavra!" A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silently he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight. (HBP pg 596/556)

Why would this application of the Avada Kedavra be so different from every other time we've seen it?

Perhaps his spell was different because even though those were the words Snape said, he didn't perform the killing curse at all. Remember all the importance this book gave to "nonverbal" spells? Perhaps Snape said Avada Kedavra, but the curse he was really thinking, the nonverbal one, was a different curse, one that only made it appear that Dumbledore was dead.

Even the title of the chapter this all takes place in is suspicous, "The Lightning-Struck Tower". Even though this is the name of the ominous tarot card that Trelawney was worried about back on page 543/507 in chapter 25, is it possible that J.K. is hinting here that the spell was not Avada Kedavra, just some green lightning sparks for show?


5. Don't Point That At Me Unless You Mean It

Several times in the course of the Harry Potter books, J.K. has told us that the Avada Kedavra is not a curse you can make lightly.

In Goblet of Fire, the fake Mad Eye Moody tells his DADA class:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed." (GoF pg 217/192)

And in Order of the Phoenix, we learn more about Avada Kedavra when Harry tries to curse Bellatrix:

Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715)

If Snape was really working on Dumbledore's orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn't want to kill Dumbledore, then isn't possible that the curse didn't kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?

Maybe dumbledore was never dead ?
what do u think ?
Is he really dead?
give your opinions .

[/b]


No i don't think Dumbledore is dead. I believe that J.K Rowling is getting ready to suprise us. I really think that she is planning on bringing Dumbledore back. I really hope so. I would really cry my heart out.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2006, 05:31 PM
Cho Granger Cho Granger is offline Scan Cho Granger
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DD has to be there. He has to be. He has to be...... Whhhhhhhhhhaaaaaa he can't be dead. *Sniffle* (I'm okay just overreacting as usual.) But he'll come back to Hogwarts or where ever the rest of the book takes place.
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Old 03-19-2007, 06:36 PM
fiery_sprite fiery_sprite is offline Scan fiery_sprite
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Okay, well, i read on mugglenet.com of the facts and JK Rowling said that Dumbledore is definitely dead. she said that he isn't hiding or anything. he's DEAD.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2007, 11:28 AM
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Okay, well, i read on mugglenet.com of the facts and JK Rowling said that Dumbledore is definitely dead. she said that he isn't hiding or anything. he's DEAD.
[/b]
Erm..yeah...we've heard it...
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2007, 09:16 PM
spellsinger spellsinger is offline Scan spellsinger
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Quote:
These are some of the clues contained in the pages of Harry Pottter and the Half-Blood Prince which support the possibility that Dumbledore is not really dead, and that everything that happened that night was planned well in advance by Dumbledore himself.

Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)

It's interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:

He could not understand how it happened -- Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -- Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)

Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.

The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.

Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.

The supposition that it was Dumbledore's plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.

Harry's own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later




We've seen Fawkes come in at the last moment and save Harry's life in Chamber of Secrets:

As Harry trembled, ready to close his eyes if it turned, he saw what had distracted the snake. Fawkes was soaring around its head, and the basilisk was snapping furiously at him with fangs long and thin as sabers -- Fawkes dived. His long golden beak sunk out of sight and a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor. (CoS pg 318/234)

And he also saved Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix:

... one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake had struck -- Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole. He burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. (OotP pg 814/719)

We know Fawkes was nearby the tower, as he shows up after Dumbledore's "death". So, why didn't Fawkes come to save Dumbledore this time?

I think the fact that he didn't makes it possible to believe that Dumbledore didn't want his life to be saved, and this supports the theory that it was Dumbledore's plan all along to "die" up on that tower that night.

4. The Flying Avada Kedavra

As soon as I read the description of exactly what happened the moment that Snape killed Dumbledore, little red flags were popping up in my brain, but I didn't pay attention to them at first. This was actually the very first clue that alerted me to this whole thing.

Every other time we've seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim simply falls over dead:

He was screaming so loudly that he never heard the words the thing in the chair spoke as it raised a wand. There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumbled. He was dead before he hit the floor. (GoF pg 15/19)

From high above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the spare." A swishing noise and a second voice, which screeched the words to the night: "Avada Kedavra!" A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to ground beside him. Cedric was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead. (GoF pg 638/553)

However, in Half-Blood Prince, when Snape curses Dumbledore with the same spell, Dumbledore violently flies up and away from the tower:

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. "Avada Kedavra!" A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silently he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight. (HBP pg 596/556)

Why would this application of the Avada Kedavra be so different from every other time we've seen it?

Perhaps his spell was different because even though those were the words Snape said, he didn't perform the killing curse at all. Remember all the importance this book gave to "nonverbal" spells? Perhaps Snape said Avada Kedavra, but the curse he was really thinking, the nonverbal one, was a different curse, one that only made it appear that Dumbledore was dead.

Even the title of the chapter this all takes place in is suspicous, "The Lightning-Struck Tower". Even though this is the name of the ominous tarot card that Trelawney was worried about back on page 543/507 in chapter 25, is it possible that J.K. is hinting here that the spell was not Avada Kedavra, just some green lightning sparks for show?


5. Don't Point That At Me Unless You Mean It

Several times in the course of the Harry Potter books, J.K. has told us that the Avada Kedavra is not a curse you can make lightly.

In Goblet of Fire, the fake Mad Eye Moody tells his DADA class:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed." (GoF pg 217/192)

And in Order of the Phoenix, we learn more about Avada Kedavra when Harry tries to curse Bellatrix:

Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715)

If Snape was really working on Dumbledore's orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn't want to kill Dumbledore, then isn't possible that the curse didn't kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?

Maybe dumbledore was never dead ?
what do u think ?
Is he really dead?
give your opinions .

[/b]
First of I would like to point out that you are an absoute GENIOUS! for thinking of all this. Second of all I think that all of this is true (or atleast one or two). I didn't think that Dumbledore was dead, but i did not think of all of this! Also we should point out (we being all that beleive he is alive) that Dumbledore mentions several times in the entire series that he trusts Snape with his life. Dumbledore usually is not wrong with the judge of character. Well, good job and keep it up!
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 04-20-2007, 11:18 AM
islesfan720 islesfan720 is offline Scan islesfan720
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I dont think he's dead I definatly think it was planned. however I think it happend a bit earlier then planned I still think there were some things that dumbledore still need to do to get harry ready for what is yet to come.. but then again when has harry needed any preperation for anything..... I think he'll make a vital appearance in teh next book easily.. in one way or antoher
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