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The Room of Requirements Discuss, The Scaly Flaky Baby at Year VII: Deathly Hallows forum
Originally Posted by Psyduck ...If Snape's soul was already damaged, why wasn't the "good side" in HIM lost? ...

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Old 08-08-2007, 01:02 AM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

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...If Snape's soul was already damaged, why wasn't the "good side" in HIM lost? And if Snape can redeem himself, why can't Draco?
I don't think that Snape's soul was damaged to an extent that the good in him was gone. He was operating under the instructions of Dumbledore, for the good side, working against Voldemort. As a show of faith to the dark lord, he may have had to do things he would otherwise not have done. But for his initial crimes, he was filled with remorse for first, having pointed out the Potter family, and second, the deaths of Harry's parents..especially that of Lily's.

Regarding Draco, I think Dumbledore didn't wish to tarnish a soul that was still untouched. Once a crime has been commited, you are a criminal until you've paid your debt. And what Draco was about to commit was cold blooded, calculated murder. And just because a soul can heal, it doesn't mean it won't bear the scars of its past. Every wound leaves a mark.

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.."You alone know whether it will harm your soul to help an old man avoid pain and humiliation,"..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is JKR trying to suggest through Dumbledore that mercy killing is okay? Or is this not a message and just the veiws of a dying old man who seems to think that it is okay to kill someone if the victim gives you permission first?

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page 707 "You cannot help." (Dumbledore said)
page 708 "Something that is beyond either of our help," said Dumbledore.
I can find only one angle to work this. JKR might have meant that neither Dumbledore nor Harry could help Voldemort now if he did not wish to help himself. You can't make a person feel remorse if they have no desire to. Or maybe he was too far gone down the path he chose and was beyond any help.

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page 741 "It's your one last chance," said Harry, "It's all you've got left.. I've seen what you'll be otherwise... Be a man... try for some remorse..."
I think Harry is just making Voldemort aware of his wretched situation here.
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Old 08-08-2007, 01:02 AM
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:17 AM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

"I've seen what you will become otherwise"

I think this is the key. Both Harry & Voldie were dead. Harry's soul and body was fine. Voldie - nothing but the barest resemblance to someone living - scared, whimpering, cowering and alone. Absolutely no glory.

I think that quote means that Harry new it was Voldie that he was looking at.

The scaly flaky baby was not the horcrux - but Voldie in the afterlife. if you believe in heaven, or karma, or whatever.... it does give the impression that even for wizards - there are consequences that are eternal based upon ones actions in this life.
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Old 08-08-2007, 04:26 AM
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"I've seen what you will become otherwise"

I think this is the key. Both Harry & Voldie were dead. Harry's soul and body was fine. Voldie - nothing but the barest resemblance to someone living - scared, whimpering, cowering and alone. Absolutely no glory.

I think that quote means that Harry new it was Voldie that he was looking at.

The scaly flaky baby was not the horcrux - but Voldie in the afterlife. if you believe in heaven, or karma, or whatever.... it does give the impression that even for wizards - there are consequences that are eternal based upon ones actions in this life.
Yes I think Voldemort entered the limbo state for some reason after he was knocked uncounscious when he tried to kill Harry. Be he remembers nothing of it because he assumed an unintelligent form. Harry saw what Voldemort would become in the afterlife and let him know about it.
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Old 08-08-2007, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

I agree with Alo on her interpretation of what Dumbledore meant, that it either meant that Voldemort was too far gone or that you can't force someone to feel remorse- but Harry, being Harry, has to offer redemption one last time.

With Dumbledore and Snape, I felt, at least, that it was demonstrating just how much Dumbledore asked of Snape, and how much he went through. It's not saying mercy killings are right, I think its' simply saying that behind every shining hero and succesful war, there are intricate and Machiavellien-style plans. (If that makes any sense. Something along the lines of the cause justifies the effect, to Dumbledore, even if the effect is that Snape's soul is ripped.)
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Old 08-11-2007, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

In death we are supposed to have a new appearance (Unblemished soul) it's the physical body that carries the scar's. D's hands were white and whole Sirius,Lupin younger and better looking than ever before. So the physical body would still carry the physical damage of time - Yes?
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Old 08-11-2007, 05:48 PM
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In death we are supposed to have a new appearance (Unblemished soul) it's the physical body that carries the scar's. D's hands were white and whole Sirius,Lupin younger and better looking than ever before. So the physical body would still carry the physical damage of time - Yes?
I think that in death our physical appearance is directly proportional to the condition of our soul. Harry's soul is unblemished. Voldemort's soul is beyond redemption, merely a fragment of its former self.
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Old 08-11-2007, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

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...I think Harry is just making Voldemort aware of his wretched situation here.
For what purpose? What's done is done. Voldemort can do nothing to change the condition of his soul.

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Originally Posted by teddylupin View Post
...it either meant that Voldemort was too far gone or that you can't force someone to feel remorse- but Harry, being Harry, has to offer redemption one last time...
Again, for what purpose? Regardless of what anyone does, Voldemort's eternity is what it is. The only difference Harry could make would be to postpone the beginning of that eternity, which seems unlikely.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

Hermione says you can put your soul back together if you feel true remorse- perhaps it is possible to heal even a soul so damaged as Voldemort's -to a certain extent- if he really tried for some remorse.

Or it was simply literary drama and Harry-worshipping.
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Old 08-11-2007, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

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Originally Posted by teddylupin View Post
Hermione says you can put your soul back together if you feel true remorse- perhaps it is possible to heal even a soul so damaged as Voldemort's -to a certain extent- if he really tried for some remorse.

Or it was simply literary drama and Harry-worshipping.
Never doubt Hermione!! LOL was she ever wrong?
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Old 08-11-2007, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: The Scaly Flaky Baby

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Originally Posted by teddylupin View Post
Hermione says you can put your soul back together if you feel true remorse- perhaps it is possible to heal even a soul so damaged as Voldemort's -to a certain extent- if he really tried for some remorse.

Or it was simply literary drama and Harry-worshipping.
There was nothing to put back together and heal. Everything else was destroyed.
That part was just lame. Nonsense.
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