Snivellus

Weren't you just in the Dumbledore Lives thread telling people they shouldn't believe Dumbledore is alive?

Surely they haven't convinced you, of all people, that Dumbledore lives, Buff?

What!?? OK so now I'M confused!!
I believe that
- Dumbledore DID \'force\' Snape into committing his murder because:

Dumbledore made Snape pledge that he (rather than some scumbag DeathEater) would kill him and that the prophecy would be allowed to unfold. The argument in the forest between Snape and Dumby, overheard by Hagrid, was D assuring Snape that the murder was the ONLY way that Voldemort would be defeated and that he fully sanctioned his own death.

Why would Dumbledore's actual death be the only way Voldemort would be defeated?

'Cause it HAS to be about Harry and Voldemort alone.
Not only does the prophesy say that it has to be, but so too does a long cultural tradition: The hero makes the final stand alone.

Dumbledore is the only person Voldemort has ever been afraid or respectful of. With him gone, V has no fear but also has no respect. He is therefore, the ultimate 'villian with a flaw'; he does not feel treatened by his enemy and underestimates them. Dumbledore needed to die to make this happen.

I can hear you saying that all of the above could happen just as well if D only pretended to die but to think that way is to miss the subtext of this and every cultural epic: Dumbledore is Harry's hope but Harry must face V totally alone, without any hope - that's what HP and every other story is really about.

Preparing the LONE fighter for the prophetic battle is what the whole story has been about. I think that this was made clear when D was preparing Harry by giving him one-on-one lessons in HBP.

Dumbledore told Harry everything he knew about the horcruxes AND Tom Riddle ONLY. Why? Because that's all Harry needs help with in order to do the task in front of him- killing Voldemort/ becoming a murderer; having knowledge AND understanding, even compassion for his victim, BUT still having a victim and being a murderer.

Dumbledore's death shows best the trust, respect and love that he espoused when alive. Anythimg else would be really sad

First of all, it doesn't really matter what the prophecy said. The books have made clear that it is all about choice.

Secondly, I totally understand that Harry has to face Voldemort alone and the mentor has to be gone for this purpose, but of course the purpose of Harry facing Voldemort alone can be served with Dumbledore faking his death. For Harry to not have hope about Dumbledore, he just has to believe he is dead, Dumbledore doesn't actually have to be dead. You act like this kind of thing has never happened before in these stories. Have you never read Lord of the Rings, or seen Superman or Star Wars?

And this kind of thing is not a cultural tradition. It goes way beyond culture. But maybe that is what you meant.

Also, this still doesn't explain, from this perspective, why Snape has to be good and in on it.

How did I miss this thread?

No!!! The spy he was talking about was Barty Crouch, Jr!

Oh. Never mind. You took care of it. Good job.

Um, no, that's not how works. If you have a regular church, ask the preacher.
I'm not a Christian, so I don't mind such speculation, but some people might.
That story is just from popular fiction, like "Jesus Christ, Super Star."
Someone made it up. In the correct (accepted) version, Judas was just a traitor.

It's like the Davinci Code (no idea how to spell it). If you think about it
for a while, it's really a dumb premise, but they're having fun with it.

You can believe what you like, but you should know that these stories are not the
official position of the church, and that some consider them to be offensive.

Ok, well I'll come out and say that I am a Christian... and I've done some theological study. Some might wonder what I'm doing in this site... but I'm not offended by the stories. I love them and love speculating what might happen. Some Christians see them as sinister... but I don't. I teach Christian Religious Education to kids in public schools (that's allowed here) and my kids know I'm a major Harry Potter fan and I do refer to some of the scenes to draw parallels for the kids at times, rarely to make an actual connection to a story in the Bible but more to draw out a value or an emotion that the kids can relate to.

Rowling's books aren't meant to be aligned with the Bible at all, she even says that in her interviews. Having said that there are images and concepts that are from Judeo-Christian things... but then there are other images/ threads from other traditions and myths.

In the Christian tradition Judas is definitely seen as a traitor. Yes he served a purpose... but people in the Christian church certainly don't revere him for doing what he did. I'll leave it to people if they want to draw a parallel between the Forbidden Forest and Gethsemane... I didn't really.

I am a Christian too and I am not offended by the books. Why get worked up about them? As long as Harry Potter doesn't come before God in your life, then they're fine. They aren't influencing kids to turn to witchcraft or anything, I don't think so, anyway. It's true that there are people who practice witchcraft in our society but the books are fictitous and we don't need to get caught up in the debate about whether or not they're 'evil'.

By the way, I noticed that more people have viewed this thread than have posted or voted. If you are reading this please vote, I really want to see what people believe about Snape.

More people view every thread than actually post in it.

Um, no, that's not how works. If you have a regular church, ask the preacher.
I'm not a Christian, so I don't mind such speculation, but some people might.
That story is just from popular fiction, like "Jesus Christ, Super Star."
Someone made it up. In the correct (accepted) version, Judas was just a traitor.[/b][/quote]
I've always had problems with this view. If he caused Jesus' death, how could he be a traitor when Jesus was meant to die?
Why do you think it is a dumb premise?
Saying that "these stories are not the official position of the church" is a bit flawed seeing as how there isn't one church. Ok, some consider them to be offensive. So what? For everything that exists there is someone out there who finds it offensive.